WOO FOUND THIS IN MIZAN'S OPEN FOLDER
my comments have a ** in front of them ;)
Hogath
(The formatting is a bit chopped up). -miz

I wouldn't normally respond to this sort of drivel, but it was fun.
To the uninitiated, this started when i snooped Rick (Hogath) after a
hearing indirectly of a long series of trash talk about me, that had 
originated from him. I was rewarded within MINUTES of my login.

**You wouldn't normally but your *cough* ego makes you respond in this
**course.  If you were truly the good guy you claim to be, you would
**have A.)  Let this go, or B.)  Possibly appoligized for your obvious
**incorrect actions :)

Alexa/Martha was involved here because she was talking to Rick. Please
consult Illarion if you want a neutral 3rd party opinion on this, as he
started snooping me (i think) midway through.

**Yup she was talking to me, same as your lackies talk to you, the difference
**is we either chose not to or can't snoop you and your lil clique :).

As per the norm, my snoop logs reside in /players/mizan/logs/snoop, with
everything that i do naturally recorded in ./mizan

>Mizan - I just wanted to know how much longer this char was going
>to be snooped?  Also I was wondering WHY I am being snooped?
Because i forgot to remove it. Also you happened to be talking to Rick
at the time, so you became a 'splash target' so to speak.

**Yeah but why were you snooping my chars in the first place?  What
**is it that you heard i had said?  Because the only comment i see
**about you it the one on your ego.  And i only made that cause
**every time you log in you say people think you are a repressor
**I just thought that was funny because I'v always viewed you as a
**nice guy who was just doing what needed to be done.

>I have done nothing illegal, I don't cheat, I do nothing that is
>wrong, other than talking to Rick and his assorted chars, and
>there is nothing else I can really think of that I do. 
Other than talking shit about me, granted that isnt illegal, but tell me
that if you were in the same situation seeing someone talking shit about
you that no interest would be taken, and that you would NOT BE CURIOUS
as to why so much shit about yourself was being flung... I think not :)

**You said it talking shit about you isn't illegal, it isn't even, believe it
**or not, unethical.  You aren't our employer, you aren't our boss, and you
**don't claim to be.  If you were really concerned with my opinion of you
**you would have asked me, not snooped me or gone on what others say.
**You come across as a very very immature person and one who has no
**understanding of what reality is.

>My conversations with Rick should be of no concern to anyone else on
>here, why they would be is beyond me.  
Using your own words about me... 'What ego! What does she think SHE IS?'
'Is SHE THAT IMPORTANT?'

**Obviously we both are, if you and or Illarion feel a need to snoop us.
**If either of us has done something wrong accuse us, and present evidence
**otherwise leave us alone.
(continued, next msg)

>You said you wanted people to come straight to you if they had an
>issue, so that is what I am doing.
About time goddamnit. I wonder how much shit talking you had done in the
past. At least i am glad you admitted to me on wiz the other day with other
people present that you were egging rick on.

**No, she wasn't, you presented her a situation on wiz, where she prolly couldn't
**respond any other way.  You can believe me when i say i need no 'egging on', and
**that I and Martha are both grown up who are quite capable of forming out own
**opinions.

>  However, I feel that by snooping
>me for no good reason, you are doing what so pisses you off.
--so sarry.--

**You should be sorry, you have violated someone's trust, this more than
**anything else is what chases people from Nirvana.  Yes, I know that
**if you are on the internet you should expect to be snooped, you seem
**however to think that you have a right and responsiblity to snoop people
**how many of your logs are really important?  How many people have you violated?

>You could have come to me if you had an issue with something you think
>I may or may not be doing.
Pardon me, but i don't know exactly how to start a conversation in response
to that.
Mizan: "Hey, i noticed you've been talking a lot of shit about me lately
        behind my back and i guess you're right. Let's chat".
-or-
As Guest: "You know you're right, Mizan is a cocksackie and i hate him too.
          I agree with you, he's got a big ego, lets fuck him up behind his
          back, nigga!"

**You could have started by asking if we had a problem with you, or attempting
**to verify through the normal means of just saying hey Hogath, i heard you were
**talking smack about me, I honestly have no reason to deny it do I, and you can
**believe i wouldn't.  Also, don't use the word nigga, it's quite offensive.
 
>These types of things are what drive players away.  
And spreading shit about other wizzes behind their backs solves everything?
Wowie-zowie, sign me the fuck up.

**What proof do you offer up that we were spreading shit about other wizes?
**I mean I'm sure that I'v been asked my opinion on certain things, and my
**feelings on some people are very well known, but i like to think that we
**can all live and let live, and while i might get angry for a minute, i
**try not to hold a grudge and i try to be nice to most people.

>Not comments made
>on an open channel or in a private chat.  I have played here for 
>years.
If you want a truly private chat, use UNIX talk over an SSH connection.
Anyone that believes a MUD is truly private for a chat- i've got some
Microsoft Internet Explorer Security patches to sell you.
This is a connection to SOMEONE ELSE'S COMPUTER over an unencrypted
TELNET session, on a completely unsecured medium. I don't understand this
'private' thing you speak of.
(continued, to part 3)

**The issue at hand isn't whether the internet is private, it's your
**abuse of a snoop device.  I still haven't seen one thing about what
**Martha and or I.  If you were doing it just to get your kicks...I
**understand.  I think your sick, but i understand.

>I had only one char for a long time, then decided to wiz that
>char.  I now regret it because I think it has caused more problems
>than pleasure for me. 
Please elaborate on this. I would like to know what you specifically mean by
that. I thought things were peachy until i realized you were one of the people
jawing shit about me. Okay, so you said that you 'just agreed with rick to
make him feel better' or something to that effect. Well, that's just lame, imo.

**And it's not lame to snoop someone for no reason because someone else told you
**that you were being talked about?

> I enjoy coding, but I do not enjoy the bullshit
>that comes along with it.
Please elaborate on said bullshit. Are wizards not helping you with technical
issues? Are wizards forcing you to code things you dont want? Is it just that
coding is fun, but testing and debugging is boring? Please explain.
This is all news to me!

**I think she is refering to your snoop of her and your harassment of her and
**I on wiz.  Don't know how an intelligent guy like you missed that one, maybe
**your too busy polishing your cross, I don't know.

>  I never had an issue with you, but if I
>am going to be snooped for doing nothing wrong, I do have an issue with that.
Refer to the top, where i talked about not being able to resist seeing why
another wizard is talking shit about me, and trying to figure out what the hell
is going on.

**Were we really talking shit?  The only comment I recall making was about your
**ego, and i the only reason i made that is cause you pull out that cross every
**time you log in so everyone can know what a nice guy you really are and how
**much you suffer from everyone else's opinion of you.

>I know you choose to not be level 200 or whatever, but you still have a lot
>of the abilities that upper level wizzes have, such as snooping. 
The snooper i use is commonly available code. Even Data had a copy of it. I was
giving it out to other wizards to use. I dont know why suddenly you have moral
issues with it now, as i recall giving you and mishtar a copy on the same day.

**Really?  I don't have a copy of it and to be quite honest i don't want a copy
**of it.  I feel no need to see what other people say about me, and i don't think
**that anyone is out to 'get' nirvana.  Maybe that why we take offense at this
**because we just don't see the necessity of the invasion.

> If I
>was doing something wrong, snoop away, but the people I choose to speak 
>with on here is not a valid reason to snoop me.  Or is it?  I won't
>stop talking to the people I talk to because others don't like it. 
Yawn. What's the point here?

**Point is you take things too far, you've not presented a reason for the
**invasion of privacy, and i know your going to point out that we should
**expect it, but why is that?  Should i be looking over my shoulder all the
**time?  Does that leave any room for other people to enjoy the game?  It
**doesn't seem that it would.  Maybe I'm wrong, who knows?

>Look at how many people, including upper level wizzes, still talk to
>Reflex.  Do they get this kind of grief? 
I was not aware that other 'upper level wizzes' still talk to reflex.
I for one would not want to risk being associated with that cocksmoking code
thief. The fact that he is a fucking moron also helps too.
I wont even bother to ask who, since it isnt my business- just verte's and boltar's
and you havent backed up this claim anyhow.

**Your right Reflex did some very bad things, and to be honest he has never
**been one that i have talked to, but i think to persecute someone for merely
**associating with him would be a grand miscarage of justice.  Maybe you can
**be that way, I know i can't.

> I am very frustrated that the
>place I come to for entertainment is turning into a place I now want
>to avoid because I feel like every move I make is being logged.  I don't
>do anything that I care if you see, I am not a mudsex freak, I don't 
>cheat, etc.  However, if I want to speak freely about things in my personal
>life, I don't feel that is anyone else's business.  If I wanted others to know,
>I would have told them myself.  Do you see where I am coming from?
This mud isn't truly private. Raw telnet means unencrypted packets floating
across the interweb for anyone who is host inline to see.

Do you see where I am coming from?
(continued on part 5)
**This is true, but it doesn't mean someone actively snooping people based on
**What?  Second hand knowledge?  You want to justify your actions to me or to
**any who read this your going to have to come up with a better excuse.

>I dont' want to have conflict with you.  All I want to know is if I am 
>going to continue to be snooped without good cause.  I just want this
>to be a fun place to be again. Thanks for listening.
>Alexa/Martha
I'm sorry but its too late. It hurts me that you chose to mindlessly trash talk
me for no reason, other than to 'placate rick' and just go with the flow.
What kind of bullshit is that?
**Grow some thicker skin.  If i went off and cried every time a co-worker or
**employee trashed me i would waste my days.  But, you are right it is too late
**you took a situation which could have been easily solved and resolved with one
**conversation and turned it into a mess where you have repeatedly insulted and
**belittled two other people.

In my simple definition of what a friend is and is not, you simply don't qualify.
Now i don't expect you to sing my praises to Rick/Hogath and convert him to the
High Church of Mizanism, but simply going along and agreeing with him about how
much of an inflated ego freak i am is not what friends do with other friends.

"Do you see where I am coming from?"

So on that note, please fuck off. And if this place annoys you so much, please
do us a favor and not come here anymore. In case you haven't noticed or figured
out, i'm not pissed because of the snoop or privacy issues here, i'm disappointed
in you since i did nothing to harm you, and you seem to get some enjoyment taking
me out. I dont care if this place has 0 active wizplayers or not, but life is 
entirely too short to be dealing with ditzy backstabbing cunts like you.

Thurber's Corrolary: "Anyone who makes an argument on a public server about the 
                      importance of privacy has automatically lost. Period."

G.R.
-miz
**Yeah, real mature.  Not much more i can say on this

